Logical notationComplete list of logical fallaciesLogical fallacy of assuming people are stupidWhat's this logical fallacy?What type of fallacy is this? Appeal to some sort of generalization?Can rational argument really change someone's opinion?What kind of logical fallacy is this?Logical Fallacy: Comparing Conspiracy to Scientific ExperimentCommon name of “overgeneralization” logical fallacyHelp with logical fallacyA Problem With Kripke's Rule-Following Paradox Example?

Should we release the security issues we found in our product as CVE or we can just update those on weekly release notes?

Gantt Chart like rectangles with log scale

Employee lack of ownership

Is it possible to upcast ritual spells?

Have researchers managed to "reverse time"? If so, what does that mean for physics?

If I can solve Sudoku can I solve Travelling Salesman Problem(TSP)? If yes, how?

My adviser wants to be the first author

Why is the President allowed to veto a cancellation of emergency powers?

Look at your watch and tell me what time is it. vs Look at your watch and tell me what time it is

What options are left, if Britain cannot decide?

A sequence that has integer values for prime indexes only:

Welcoming 2019 Pi day: How to draw the letter π?

Dice rolling probability game

How to create the Curved texte?

How to terminate ping <dest> &

Do the common programs (for example: "ls", "cat") in Linux and BSD come from the same source code?

Credit cards used everywhere in Singapore or Malaysia?

Instead of Universal Basic Income, why not Universal Basic NEEDS?

How to explain that I do not want to visit a country due to personal safety concern?

Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?

How do I hide Chekhov's Gun?

Knife as defense against stray dogs

How to read the value of this capacitor?

Adventure Game (text based) in C++



Logical notation


Complete list of logical fallaciesLogical fallacy of assuming people are stupidWhat's this logical fallacy?What type of fallacy is this? Appeal to some sort of generalization?Can rational argument really change someone's opinion?What kind of logical fallacy is this?Logical Fallacy: Comparing Conspiracy to Scientific ExperimentCommon name of “overgeneralization” logical fallacyHelp with logical fallacyA Problem With Kripke's Rule-Following Paradox Example?













1















I'm currently debating with someone whether something could be considered possible because we have no evidence that it's impossible. He made the statement that: "All things are possible which are not proven to be impossible", and attempted to justify it by claiming it's a truism (everything that is not ~A is A).
I replied that his statement is not a truism because it doesn't have A/~A as his options, but A and "proven to be ~A".



He then offered me this:



"That objection doesn't seem to hold much merit given that the sentence structure indicates that two concepts are being included. First, you have the two clauses "A and ~A" then you have the contextual modifier "proven to be."



The arguments:



1) ∀X which are ~~ A -->A
2) ~W for ~A -->A



and:



∀X ~W ~A ---> A



Are logically equivalent."



Since I'm new to logical notation, I'm having a hard time expressing the above arguments in normal language.



Can anyone help?










share|improve this question









New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    11 hours ago












  • Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

    – Conifold
    3 hours ago
















1















I'm currently debating with someone whether something could be considered possible because we have no evidence that it's impossible. He made the statement that: "All things are possible which are not proven to be impossible", and attempted to justify it by claiming it's a truism (everything that is not ~A is A).
I replied that his statement is not a truism because it doesn't have A/~A as his options, but A and "proven to be ~A".



He then offered me this:



"That objection doesn't seem to hold much merit given that the sentence structure indicates that two concepts are being included. First, you have the two clauses "A and ~A" then you have the contextual modifier "proven to be."



The arguments:



1) ∀X which are ~~ A -->A
2) ~W for ~A -->A



and:



∀X ~W ~A ---> A



Are logically equivalent."



Since I'm new to logical notation, I'm having a hard time expressing the above arguments in normal language.



Can anyone help?










share|improve this question









New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    11 hours ago












  • Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

    – Conifold
    3 hours ago














1












1








1








I'm currently debating with someone whether something could be considered possible because we have no evidence that it's impossible. He made the statement that: "All things are possible which are not proven to be impossible", and attempted to justify it by claiming it's a truism (everything that is not ~A is A).
I replied that his statement is not a truism because it doesn't have A/~A as his options, but A and "proven to be ~A".



He then offered me this:



"That objection doesn't seem to hold much merit given that the sentence structure indicates that two concepts are being included. First, you have the two clauses "A and ~A" then you have the contextual modifier "proven to be."



The arguments:



1) ∀X which are ~~ A -->A
2) ~W for ~A -->A



and:



∀X ~W ~A ---> A



Are logically equivalent."



Since I'm new to logical notation, I'm having a hard time expressing the above arguments in normal language.



Can anyone help?










share|improve this question









New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












I'm currently debating with someone whether something could be considered possible because we have no evidence that it's impossible. He made the statement that: "All things are possible which are not proven to be impossible", and attempted to justify it by claiming it's a truism (everything that is not ~A is A).
I replied that his statement is not a truism because it doesn't have A/~A as his options, but A and "proven to be ~A".



He then offered me this:



"That objection doesn't seem to hold much merit given that the sentence structure indicates that two concepts are being included. First, you have the two clauses "A and ~A" then you have the contextual modifier "proven to be."



The arguments:



1) ∀X which are ~~ A -->A
2) ~W for ~A -->A



and:



∀X ~W ~A ---> A



Are logically equivalent."



Since I'm new to logical notation, I'm having a hard time expressing the above arguments in normal language.



Can anyone help?







fallacies






share|improve this question









New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 10 hours ago







John Weston













New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked 13 hours ago









John WestonJohn Weston

143




143




New contributor




John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






John Weston is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    11 hours ago












  • Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

    – Conifold
    3 hours ago


















  • There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    11 hours ago












  • Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

    – Conifold
    3 hours ago

















There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
11 hours ago






There is a ball in a box : the ball is either black or white, but we do not know which one. The only way to know if the ball is balck is to open the box and see (this is the proof). Conclusion (wrong) : the ball in the box is white because it is not proven that it is black.

– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
11 hours ago














Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

– Conifold
3 hours ago






Standard symbols are ⊢ for "proven", and ◇ for "possible". Not proven impossible is ~⊢ ~◇A, proven possible is ⊢◇A. Your interlocutor's suggestion amounts to moving ~ across ⊢, which is fallacious. Not proven impossible gives us no information on the possibility of A, only on what we can prove. So it is consistent with the system of possible worlds containing a single world where A is false, which is a counterexample to ◇A, so it is not provable. By the way, even ~~ A → A (double negation law) is not a truism and is denied by constructionists.

– Conifold
3 hours ago











2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















2














I'm not sure what the notation you quote is trying to achieve. It would help to point out that when speaking of something being possible, there are many different kinds of possibility. At the very least there is:



  1. Physical possibility. Things that are compatible with our best understanding of the laws of nature. In this sense, a perpetual motion machine is impossible, meaning that if our understanding of the physics of our universe is correct then none can exist in our universe.


  2. Actual possibility. Things that are compatible with the laws of nature together with some statement of the boundary conditions of the actual universe. It is not physically impossible for our solar system to have had seven planets rather than eight, but given the actual boundary conditions, eight is what we get. It is not physically impossible for unicorns to have evolved on our planet, but they didn't.


  3. Epistemic possibility. Things that are compatible with what we know to be true, or things that might be true for all we know. This is a much broader kind of possibility than the previous two, because we don't know all the laws of nature or all the boundary conditions of the actual universe. For all we know, Arcturus might have twenty planets in orbit around it, so it is possible in this sense, though with future discoveries we might find that there are ten or a hundred or none. We tend to grade propositions by how credible they are, so we might still say of an epistemically possible proposition that it is highly unlikely.


  4. Logical possibility. Roughly speaking, things that do not imply a contradiction. This is also a very broad understanding of possible. It is logically possible that there are unicorns, perpetual motion machines and honest politicians, though there may be none in our universe.


Your disputant appears to have either the third or fourth of these in mind. If some proposition is not proven to be impossible then it is epistemically possible: i.e. it might be true for all we can prove. And if there is no way to prove it false, i.e. there is no way to demonstrate that a contradiction follows from it then it is logically possible.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago











  • Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago


















1














I think it's important to get clear on what kind of possibility you're talking about. On one way of understanding the kind possibility in question, your friend's claim is trivially true. On another, it's false. Take for example epistemic possibility, which is expressed in statements such as "for all we know, X". On this interpretation your friend's claim is: if we haven't proven ~X, then for all we know, X. This is trivially true we since "we haven't proven ~X" is just taken to mean "for all we know, X".



But if we take "possibility" to be a more objective kind of possibility, then your friend's claim is false. As of now, no one has proven Goldbach's conjecture nor has anyone proven its negation. But, at least on commonly accepted views, Goldbach's conjecture is either necessarily true or necessarily false. (To take another example: it was always necessarily true that water is H2O, so it was never possible that water wasn't H2O, even before this was proven.) Take epistemic possibility again: it's true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is true" and also true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is false", since no one has proven either. You and your friend may just have different notions of possibility in mind.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • @JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago












  • @JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago










Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "265"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);






John Weston is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61129%2flogical-notation%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2














I'm not sure what the notation you quote is trying to achieve. It would help to point out that when speaking of something being possible, there are many different kinds of possibility. At the very least there is:



  1. Physical possibility. Things that are compatible with our best understanding of the laws of nature. In this sense, a perpetual motion machine is impossible, meaning that if our understanding of the physics of our universe is correct then none can exist in our universe.


  2. Actual possibility. Things that are compatible with the laws of nature together with some statement of the boundary conditions of the actual universe. It is not physically impossible for our solar system to have had seven planets rather than eight, but given the actual boundary conditions, eight is what we get. It is not physically impossible for unicorns to have evolved on our planet, but they didn't.


  3. Epistemic possibility. Things that are compatible with what we know to be true, or things that might be true for all we know. This is a much broader kind of possibility than the previous two, because we don't know all the laws of nature or all the boundary conditions of the actual universe. For all we know, Arcturus might have twenty planets in orbit around it, so it is possible in this sense, though with future discoveries we might find that there are ten or a hundred or none. We tend to grade propositions by how credible they are, so we might still say of an epistemically possible proposition that it is highly unlikely.


  4. Logical possibility. Roughly speaking, things that do not imply a contradiction. This is also a very broad understanding of possible. It is logically possible that there are unicorns, perpetual motion machines and honest politicians, though there may be none in our universe.


Your disputant appears to have either the third or fourth of these in mind. If some proposition is not proven to be impossible then it is epistemically possible: i.e. it might be true for all we can prove. And if there is no way to prove it false, i.e. there is no way to demonstrate that a contradiction follows from it then it is logically possible.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago











  • Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago















2














I'm not sure what the notation you quote is trying to achieve. It would help to point out that when speaking of something being possible, there are many different kinds of possibility. At the very least there is:



  1. Physical possibility. Things that are compatible with our best understanding of the laws of nature. In this sense, a perpetual motion machine is impossible, meaning that if our understanding of the physics of our universe is correct then none can exist in our universe.


  2. Actual possibility. Things that are compatible with the laws of nature together with some statement of the boundary conditions of the actual universe. It is not physically impossible for our solar system to have had seven planets rather than eight, but given the actual boundary conditions, eight is what we get. It is not physically impossible for unicorns to have evolved on our planet, but they didn't.


  3. Epistemic possibility. Things that are compatible with what we know to be true, or things that might be true for all we know. This is a much broader kind of possibility than the previous two, because we don't know all the laws of nature or all the boundary conditions of the actual universe. For all we know, Arcturus might have twenty planets in orbit around it, so it is possible in this sense, though with future discoveries we might find that there are ten or a hundred or none. We tend to grade propositions by how credible they are, so we might still say of an epistemically possible proposition that it is highly unlikely.


  4. Logical possibility. Roughly speaking, things that do not imply a contradiction. This is also a very broad understanding of possible. It is logically possible that there are unicorns, perpetual motion machines and honest politicians, though there may be none in our universe.


Your disputant appears to have either the third or fourth of these in mind. If some proposition is not proven to be impossible then it is epistemically possible: i.e. it might be true for all we can prove. And if there is no way to prove it false, i.e. there is no way to demonstrate that a contradiction follows from it then it is logically possible.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago











  • Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago













2












2








2







I'm not sure what the notation you quote is trying to achieve. It would help to point out that when speaking of something being possible, there are many different kinds of possibility. At the very least there is:



  1. Physical possibility. Things that are compatible with our best understanding of the laws of nature. In this sense, a perpetual motion machine is impossible, meaning that if our understanding of the physics of our universe is correct then none can exist in our universe.


  2. Actual possibility. Things that are compatible with the laws of nature together with some statement of the boundary conditions of the actual universe. It is not physically impossible for our solar system to have had seven planets rather than eight, but given the actual boundary conditions, eight is what we get. It is not physically impossible for unicorns to have evolved on our planet, but they didn't.


  3. Epistemic possibility. Things that are compatible with what we know to be true, or things that might be true for all we know. This is a much broader kind of possibility than the previous two, because we don't know all the laws of nature or all the boundary conditions of the actual universe. For all we know, Arcturus might have twenty planets in orbit around it, so it is possible in this sense, though with future discoveries we might find that there are ten or a hundred or none. We tend to grade propositions by how credible they are, so we might still say of an epistemically possible proposition that it is highly unlikely.


  4. Logical possibility. Roughly speaking, things that do not imply a contradiction. This is also a very broad understanding of possible. It is logically possible that there are unicorns, perpetual motion machines and honest politicians, though there may be none in our universe.


Your disputant appears to have either the third or fourth of these in mind. If some proposition is not proven to be impossible then it is epistemically possible: i.e. it might be true for all we can prove. And if there is no way to prove it false, i.e. there is no way to demonstrate that a contradiction follows from it then it is logically possible.






share|improve this answer













I'm not sure what the notation you quote is trying to achieve. It would help to point out that when speaking of something being possible, there are many different kinds of possibility. At the very least there is:



  1. Physical possibility. Things that are compatible with our best understanding of the laws of nature. In this sense, a perpetual motion machine is impossible, meaning that if our understanding of the physics of our universe is correct then none can exist in our universe.


  2. Actual possibility. Things that are compatible with the laws of nature together with some statement of the boundary conditions of the actual universe. It is not physically impossible for our solar system to have had seven planets rather than eight, but given the actual boundary conditions, eight is what we get. It is not physically impossible for unicorns to have evolved on our planet, but they didn't.


  3. Epistemic possibility. Things that are compatible with what we know to be true, or things that might be true for all we know. This is a much broader kind of possibility than the previous two, because we don't know all the laws of nature or all the boundary conditions of the actual universe. For all we know, Arcturus might have twenty planets in orbit around it, so it is possible in this sense, though with future discoveries we might find that there are ten or a hundred or none. We tend to grade propositions by how credible they are, so we might still say of an epistemically possible proposition that it is highly unlikely.


  4. Logical possibility. Roughly speaking, things that do not imply a contradiction. This is also a very broad understanding of possible. It is logically possible that there are unicorns, perpetual motion machines and honest politicians, though there may be none in our universe.


Your disputant appears to have either the third or fourth of these in mind. If some proposition is not proven to be impossible then it is epistemically possible: i.e. it might be true for all we can prove. And if there is no way to prove it false, i.e. there is no way to demonstrate that a contradiction follows from it then it is logically possible.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 11 hours ago









BumbleBumble

7,92521134




7,92521134












  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago











  • Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago

















  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago











  • Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

    – Bumble
    10 hours ago
















What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

– John Weston
10 hours ago





What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

– John Weston
10 hours ago













In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

– Bumble
10 hours ago





In the absence of a definite theory of what souls are and how they are related to bodies, one would have to say that it is logically possible that souls exist and that they can exist independently of bodies. If we entertain it as a logical possibility but have no way to know that it is false then we might have to say it is epistemically possible too. But the important question here is: do we human beings in our universe actually have souls that can exist independently of our bodies? This is really a question about how plausible such a claim is given our other knowledge...

– Bumble
10 hours ago













Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

– Bumble
10 hours ago





Considering that souls are typically thought of as intangible things, such a claim is difficult to assess. To a physicalist, souls are perhaps incompatible with a monistic understanding of the universe, or at the least their existence is an unwarranted hypothesis. But that just shifts the debate into the question of whether physicalism is correct. The problem with debates of this kind is that it is not obvious what even counts as evidence for or against physicalism, or souls for that matter.

– Bumble
10 hours ago











1














I think it's important to get clear on what kind of possibility you're talking about. On one way of understanding the kind possibility in question, your friend's claim is trivially true. On another, it's false. Take for example epistemic possibility, which is expressed in statements such as "for all we know, X". On this interpretation your friend's claim is: if we haven't proven ~X, then for all we know, X. This is trivially true we since "we haven't proven ~X" is just taken to mean "for all we know, X".



But if we take "possibility" to be a more objective kind of possibility, then your friend's claim is false. As of now, no one has proven Goldbach's conjecture nor has anyone proven its negation. But, at least on commonly accepted views, Goldbach's conjecture is either necessarily true or necessarily false. (To take another example: it was always necessarily true that water is H2O, so it was never possible that water wasn't H2O, even before this was proven.) Take epistemic possibility again: it's true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is true" and also true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is false", since no one has proven either. You and your friend may just have different notions of possibility in mind.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • @JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago












  • @JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago















1














I think it's important to get clear on what kind of possibility you're talking about. On one way of understanding the kind possibility in question, your friend's claim is trivially true. On another, it's false. Take for example epistemic possibility, which is expressed in statements such as "for all we know, X". On this interpretation your friend's claim is: if we haven't proven ~X, then for all we know, X. This is trivially true we since "we haven't proven ~X" is just taken to mean "for all we know, X".



But if we take "possibility" to be a more objective kind of possibility, then your friend's claim is false. As of now, no one has proven Goldbach's conjecture nor has anyone proven its negation. But, at least on commonly accepted views, Goldbach's conjecture is either necessarily true or necessarily false. (To take another example: it was always necessarily true that water is H2O, so it was never possible that water wasn't H2O, even before this was proven.) Take epistemic possibility again: it's true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is true" and also true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is false", since no one has proven either. You and your friend may just have different notions of possibility in mind.






share|improve this answer























  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • @JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago












  • @JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago













1












1








1







I think it's important to get clear on what kind of possibility you're talking about. On one way of understanding the kind possibility in question, your friend's claim is trivially true. On another, it's false. Take for example epistemic possibility, which is expressed in statements such as "for all we know, X". On this interpretation your friend's claim is: if we haven't proven ~X, then for all we know, X. This is trivially true we since "we haven't proven ~X" is just taken to mean "for all we know, X".



But if we take "possibility" to be a more objective kind of possibility, then your friend's claim is false. As of now, no one has proven Goldbach's conjecture nor has anyone proven its negation. But, at least on commonly accepted views, Goldbach's conjecture is either necessarily true or necessarily false. (To take another example: it was always necessarily true that water is H2O, so it was never possible that water wasn't H2O, even before this was proven.) Take epistemic possibility again: it's true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is true" and also true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is false", since no one has proven either. You and your friend may just have different notions of possibility in mind.






share|improve this answer













I think it's important to get clear on what kind of possibility you're talking about. On one way of understanding the kind possibility in question, your friend's claim is trivially true. On another, it's false. Take for example epistemic possibility, which is expressed in statements such as "for all we know, X". On this interpretation your friend's claim is: if we haven't proven ~X, then for all we know, X. This is trivially true we since "we haven't proven ~X" is just taken to mean "for all we know, X".



But if we take "possibility" to be a more objective kind of possibility, then your friend's claim is false. As of now, no one has proven Goldbach's conjecture nor has anyone proven its negation. But, at least on commonly accepted views, Goldbach's conjecture is either necessarily true or necessarily false. (To take another example: it was always necessarily true that water is H2O, so it was never possible that water wasn't H2O, even before this was proven.) Take epistemic possibility again: it's true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is true" and also true that "for all we know, Goldbach's conjecture is false", since no one has proven either. You and your friend may just have different notions of possibility in mind.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 11 hours ago









EliranEliran

4,71121433




4,71121433












  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • @JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago












  • @JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago

















  • What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

    – John Weston
    10 hours ago











  • @JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago












  • @JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

    – Eliran
    10 hours ago
















What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

– John Weston
10 hours ago





What if my counterpart is talking about whether it's possible for souls to exist and leave the body?

– John Weston
10 hours ago













@JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

– Eliran
10 hours ago






@JohnWeston I would say it's hard to tell what he has in mind, as you can meaningfully apply different kinds of possibility to that question. However, it seems to me not very productive to talk about whether such a thing is possible or not. If you think it's false you may still admit that it's possible. Usually we're more interested in what is rational to believe, not in what is merely possible. You may say, for instance: sure, it's possible, but there is no good reason to believe it.

– Eliran
10 hours ago














@JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

– Eliran
10 hours ago





@JohnWeston Also, you may even accept your friend's claim that "if we have not proven it's impossible for souls to exists, then it's possible for souls to exist" and deny that we haven't proven that it's impossible for souls to exist.

– Eliran
10 hours ago










John Weston is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















John Weston is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












John Weston is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











John Weston is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














Thanks for contributing an answer to Philosophy Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphilosophy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f61129%2flogical-notation%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

How should I use the fbox command correctly to avoid producing a Bad Box message?How to put a long piece of text in a box?How to specify height and width of fboxIs there an arrayrulecolor-like command to change the rule color of fbox?What is the command to highlight bad boxes in pdf?Why does fbox sometimes place the box *over* the graphic image?how to put the text in the boxHow to create command for a box where text inside the box can automatically adjust?how can I make an fbox like command with certain color, shape and width of border?how to use fbox in align modeFbox increase the spacing between the box and it content (inner margin)how to change the box height of an equationWhat is the use of the hbox in a newcommand command?

152 Atala Notae | Nexus externi | Tabula navigationis"Discovery Circumstances: Numbered Minor Planets"2000152Small-Body Database

Doxepinum Nexus interni Notae | Tabula navigationis3158DB01142WHOa682390"Structural Analysis of the Histamine H1 Receptor""Transdermal and Topical Drug Administration in the Treatment of Pain""Antidepressants as antipruritic agents: A review"