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What is the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhat is the oldest law still in force?What is the business case for the general electorate in requiring hairdressers to be licensed?What modern state has the lowest effective age of consent?Why are emergency service professionals exempt from CA prohibitions on texting while driving?What motivation, if any, was given for Alabama's write-in vote law?How binding is the two degree temperature limit agreement really?Why is advertising for medication requiring prescription allowed?Is the Flores Consent Decree binding nationally and currently?Can a Western democracy prevent private groups from using the country’s name/purporting to represent that country e.g. at the World Cup?How Could Michael Cohen Stand to Benefit by Lying to Congress Again
I asked this question in the law site, but I was told it has more to do with politics (same question in the law site).
Let's assume A and B have a discussion about a business deal and A will record the conversation without B's knowledge. Later on, they have a disagreement that takes them to court. Let's also assume that the recording is long enough to be unambiguous and can't be taken out of context.
In some states, B should consent to the recording but I fail to understand the motivation behind that law:
- A is already 'recording' the conversation in his brain. It may be a fuzzy and somewhat unreliable recording, but the conversation is nonetheless saved somewhere.
- If the court is trying to establish 'the truth', nothing could be better than a recording of the situation; why rely on 2 fuzzy biased recollections of the events when a single recording will provide reliable information.
- One could argue that if A is wrong, he will not produce the recording, but if he's right he will product it, therefore B is at a disadvantage; but maybe A has a much better memory than B, or vice versa, so there is no true equality when it comes to event recollection and we'd just be adding a lot of random to the process.
- A could think that since he's not allowed to produce a recording, he could do a transcript of his memory, aided by the audio recording; but since he knows the 'truth', having his testimony valued at the same level as B's pure memory recollection is putting A as a disadvantage since B's memory, not matter how good, wouldn't rival a recording.
I can't understand the motivation of 2 consents at all. Can someone explain it to me?
law
New contributor
add a comment |
I asked this question in the law site, but I was told it has more to do with politics (same question in the law site).
Let's assume A and B have a discussion about a business deal and A will record the conversation without B's knowledge. Later on, they have a disagreement that takes them to court. Let's also assume that the recording is long enough to be unambiguous and can't be taken out of context.
In some states, B should consent to the recording but I fail to understand the motivation behind that law:
- A is already 'recording' the conversation in his brain. It may be a fuzzy and somewhat unreliable recording, but the conversation is nonetheless saved somewhere.
- If the court is trying to establish 'the truth', nothing could be better than a recording of the situation; why rely on 2 fuzzy biased recollections of the events when a single recording will provide reliable information.
- One could argue that if A is wrong, he will not produce the recording, but if he's right he will product it, therefore B is at a disadvantage; but maybe A has a much better memory than B, or vice versa, so there is no true equality when it comes to event recollection and we'd just be adding a lot of random to the process.
- A could think that since he's not allowed to produce a recording, he could do a transcript of his memory, aided by the audio recording; but since he knows the 'truth', having his testimony valued at the same level as B's pure memory recollection is putting A as a disadvantage since B's memory, not matter how good, wouldn't rival a recording.
I can't understand the motivation of 2 consents at all. Can someone explain it to me?
law
New contributor
I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago
add a comment |
I asked this question in the law site, but I was told it has more to do with politics (same question in the law site).
Let's assume A and B have a discussion about a business deal and A will record the conversation without B's knowledge. Later on, they have a disagreement that takes them to court. Let's also assume that the recording is long enough to be unambiguous and can't be taken out of context.
In some states, B should consent to the recording but I fail to understand the motivation behind that law:
- A is already 'recording' the conversation in his brain. It may be a fuzzy and somewhat unreliable recording, but the conversation is nonetheless saved somewhere.
- If the court is trying to establish 'the truth', nothing could be better than a recording of the situation; why rely on 2 fuzzy biased recollections of the events when a single recording will provide reliable information.
- One could argue that if A is wrong, he will not produce the recording, but if he's right he will product it, therefore B is at a disadvantage; but maybe A has a much better memory than B, or vice versa, so there is no true equality when it comes to event recollection and we'd just be adding a lot of random to the process.
- A could think that since he's not allowed to produce a recording, he could do a transcript of his memory, aided by the audio recording; but since he knows the 'truth', having his testimony valued at the same level as B's pure memory recollection is putting A as a disadvantage since B's memory, not matter how good, wouldn't rival a recording.
I can't understand the motivation of 2 consents at all. Can someone explain it to me?
law
New contributor
I asked this question in the law site, but I was told it has more to do with politics (same question in the law site).
Let's assume A and B have a discussion about a business deal and A will record the conversation without B's knowledge. Later on, they have a disagreement that takes them to court. Let's also assume that the recording is long enough to be unambiguous and can't be taken out of context.
In some states, B should consent to the recording but I fail to understand the motivation behind that law:
- A is already 'recording' the conversation in his brain. It may be a fuzzy and somewhat unreliable recording, but the conversation is nonetheless saved somewhere.
- If the court is trying to establish 'the truth', nothing could be better than a recording of the situation; why rely on 2 fuzzy biased recollections of the events when a single recording will provide reliable information.
- One could argue that if A is wrong, he will not produce the recording, but if he's right he will product it, therefore B is at a disadvantage; but maybe A has a much better memory than B, or vice versa, so there is no true equality when it comes to event recollection and we'd just be adding a lot of random to the process.
- A could think that since he's not allowed to produce a recording, he could do a transcript of his memory, aided by the audio recording; but since he knows the 'truth', having his testimony valued at the same level as B's pure memory recollection is putting A as a disadvantage since B's memory, not matter how good, wouldn't rival a recording.
I can't understand the motivation of 2 consents at all. Can someone explain it to me?
law
law
New contributor
New contributor
edited 2 hours ago
JJJ
6,21322455
6,21322455
New contributor
asked 2 hours ago
ThomasThomas
1362
1362
New contributor
New contributor
I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago
add a comment |
I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago
I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
If I know you are recording me, I may speak differently and use clearer language. If I don't, I may be more likely to use ambiguous language that can be taken out of context. Consider the case of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas. Their goal is to surreptitiously record people doing things some people may think are bad and discredit them for political purposes. As it turns out, selective editing of the recordings caused a massive uproar on a number of issues when in fact the context surrounding the recorded exchanges was sometimes hotly disputed after editing, and in some cases demonstrably false.
Numerous undercover investigations by would-be reporters at factory farms attempted to highlight the conditions of animals at those places, inspiring a wave of Ag-gag laws in some states and other anti-whistleblower legislation. In some cases they were successful at being truthful and highlighting abuse, in others they were only successful at hurting their cause since legislators in those areas weren't convinced of the recordings' veracity given how they were obtained.
Having two-party consent to record interactions means everyone knows a recording exists. If I know a recording exists of me, I would be more likely to request a full unedited copy so that I may protect myself from people who only wish to further their own agenda regardless of what I actually say. If someone has to lie or be deceitful in order to obtain a recording, how can viewers trust that what they see or hear is the full context? A single surreptitious recording can be used to imply a large scale conspiracy and discredit an entire organization, when in reality there could just be a single bad actor.
Note - this issue is distinct and separate from so-called "ambush journalism", since generally in those cases large lumbering cameramen are a giveaway that the target is being recorded.
add a comment |
To pick a two-party-consent jurisdiction at random, let us consider California, USA.
In 1967, the California Legislature enacted a broad, protective invasion-of-privacy statute in response to what it viewed as a serious and increasing threat to
the confidentiality of private communications resulting from then recent advances
in science and technology that had led to the development of new devices and
techniques for eavesdropping upon and recording such private communications.
This was done by means of Assembly Bill 860, which became Penal Code §§ 630-637.2. In a statement by Assemblyman Jesse Marvin "Big Daddy" Unruh, before the Senate Committee on Judiciary, the bill was so described:
The Legislature hereby declares that advances in science and
technology have led to the development of new devices and techniques
for the purpose of eavesdropping upon private communications and that
the invasion of privacy resulting from the continual and increasing
use of such devices and techniques has created a serious threat to the
free exercise of personal liberties and cannot be tolerated in a free
and civilized society. The Legislature by this chapter intends to
protect the right of privacy of the people of this state.
This would suggest that the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation is a concern for privacy.
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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If I know you are recording me, I may speak differently and use clearer language. If I don't, I may be more likely to use ambiguous language that can be taken out of context. Consider the case of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas. Their goal is to surreptitiously record people doing things some people may think are bad and discredit them for political purposes. As it turns out, selective editing of the recordings caused a massive uproar on a number of issues when in fact the context surrounding the recorded exchanges was sometimes hotly disputed after editing, and in some cases demonstrably false.
Numerous undercover investigations by would-be reporters at factory farms attempted to highlight the conditions of animals at those places, inspiring a wave of Ag-gag laws in some states and other anti-whistleblower legislation. In some cases they were successful at being truthful and highlighting abuse, in others they were only successful at hurting their cause since legislators in those areas weren't convinced of the recordings' veracity given how they were obtained.
Having two-party consent to record interactions means everyone knows a recording exists. If I know a recording exists of me, I would be more likely to request a full unedited copy so that I may protect myself from people who only wish to further their own agenda regardless of what I actually say. If someone has to lie or be deceitful in order to obtain a recording, how can viewers trust that what they see or hear is the full context? A single surreptitious recording can be used to imply a large scale conspiracy and discredit an entire organization, when in reality there could just be a single bad actor.
Note - this issue is distinct and separate from so-called "ambush journalism", since generally in those cases large lumbering cameramen are a giveaway that the target is being recorded.
add a comment |
If I know you are recording me, I may speak differently and use clearer language. If I don't, I may be more likely to use ambiguous language that can be taken out of context. Consider the case of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas. Their goal is to surreptitiously record people doing things some people may think are bad and discredit them for political purposes. As it turns out, selective editing of the recordings caused a massive uproar on a number of issues when in fact the context surrounding the recorded exchanges was sometimes hotly disputed after editing, and in some cases demonstrably false.
Numerous undercover investigations by would-be reporters at factory farms attempted to highlight the conditions of animals at those places, inspiring a wave of Ag-gag laws in some states and other anti-whistleblower legislation. In some cases they were successful at being truthful and highlighting abuse, in others they were only successful at hurting their cause since legislators in those areas weren't convinced of the recordings' veracity given how they were obtained.
Having two-party consent to record interactions means everyone knows a recording exists. If I know a recording exists of me, I would be more likely to request a full unedited copy so that I may protect myself from people who only wish to further their own agenda regardless of what I actually say. If someone has to lie or be deceitful in order to obtain a recording, how can viewers trust that what they see or hear is the full context? A single surreptitious recording can be used to imply a large scale conspiracy and discredit an entire organization, when in reality there could just be a single bad actor.
Note - this issue is distinct and separate from so-called "ambush journalism", since generally in those cases large lumbering cameramen are a giveaway that the target is being recorded.
add a comment |
If I know you are recording me, I may speak differently and use clearer language. If I don't, I may be more likely to use ambiguous language that can be taken out of context. Consider the case of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas. Their goal is to surreptitiously record people doing things some people may think are bad and discredit them for political purposes. As it turns out, selective editing of the recordings caused a massive uproar on a number of issues when in fact the context surrounding the recorded exchanges was sometimes hotly disputed after editing, and in some cases demonstrably false.
Numerous undercover investigations by would-be reporters at factory farms attempted to highlight the conditions of animals at those places, inspiring a wave of Ag-gag laws in some states and other anti-whistleblower legislation. In some cases they were successful at being truthful and highlighting abuse, in others they were only successful at hurting their cause since legislators in those areas weren't convinced of the recordings' veracity given how they were obtained.
Having two-party consent to record interactions means everyone knows a recording exists. If I know a recording exists of me, I would be more likely to request a full unedited copy so that I may protect myself from people who only wish to further their own agenda regardless of what I actually say. If someone has to lie or be deceitful in order to obtain a recording, how can viewers trust that what they see or hear is the full context? A single surreptitious recording can be used to imply a large scale conspiracy and discredit an entire organization, when in reality there could just be a single bad actor.
Note - this issue is distinct and separate from so-called "ambush journalism", since generally in those cases large lumbering cameramen are a giveaway that the target is being recorded.
If I know you are recording me, I may speak differently and use clearer language. If I don't, I may be more likely to use ambiguous language that can be taken out of context. Consider the case of James O'Keefe and Project Veritas. Their goal is to surreptitiously record people doing things some people may think are bad and discredit them for political purposes. As it turns out, selective editing of the recordings caused a massive uproar on a number of issues when in fact the context surrounding the recorded exchanges was sometimes hotly disputed after editing, and in some cases demonstrably false.
Numerous undercover investigations by would-be reporters at factory farms attempted to highlight the conditions of animals at those places, inspiring a wave of Ag-gag laws in some states and other anti-whistleblower legislation. In some cases they were successful at being truthful and highlighting abuse, in others they were only successful at hurting their cause since legislators in those areas weren't convinced of the recordings' veracity given how they were obtained.
Having two-party consent to record interactions means everyone knows a recording exists. If I know a recording exists of me, I would be more likely to request a full unedited copy so that I may protect myself from people who only wish to further their own agenda regardless of what I actually say. If someone has to lie or be deceitful in order to obtain a recording, how can viewers trust that what they see or hear is the full context? A single surreptitious recording can be used to imply a large scale conspiracy and discredit an entire organization, when in reality there could just be a single bad actor.
Note - this issue is distinct and separate from so-called "ambush journalism", since generally in those cases large lumbering cameramen are a giveaway that the target is being recorded.
answered 1 hour ago
Jeff LambertJeff Lambert
10.1k52849
10.1k52849
add a comment |
add a comment |
To pick a two-party-consent jurisdiction at random, let us consider California, USA.
In 1967, the California Legislature enacted a broad, protective invasion-of-privacy statute in response to what it viewed as a serious and increasing threat to
the confidentiality of private communications resulting from then recent advances
in science and technology that had led to the development of new devices and
techniques for eavesdropping upon and recording such private communications.
This was done by means of Assembly Bill 860, which became Penal Code §§ 630-637.2. In a statement by Assemblyman Jesse Marvin "Big Daddy" Unruh, before the Senate Committee on Judiciary, the bill was so described:
The Legislature hereby declares that advances in science and
technology have led to the development of new devices and techniques
for the purpose of eavesdropping upon private communications and that
the invasion of privacy resulting from the continual and increasing
use of such devices and techniques has created a serious threat to the
free exercise of personal liberties and cannot be tolerated in a free
and civilized society. The Legislature by this chapter intends to
protect the right of privacy of the people of this state.
This would suggest that the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation is a concern for privacy.
add a comment |
To pick a two-party-consent jurisdiction at random, let us consider California, USA.
In 1967, the California Legislature enacted a broad, protective invasion-of-privacy statute in response to what it viewed as a serious and increasing threat to
the confidentiality of private communications resulting from then recent advances
in science and technology that had led to the development of new devices and
techniques for eavesdropping upon and recording such private communications.
This was done by means of Assembly Bill 860, which became Penal Code §§ 630-637.2. In a statement by Assemblyman Jesse Marvin "Big Daddy" Unruh, before the Senate Committee on Judiciary, the bill was so described:
The Legislature hereby declares that advances in science and
technology have led to the development of new devices and techniques
for the purpose of eavesdropping upon private communications and that
the invasion of privacy resulting from the continual and increasing
use of such devices and techniques has created a serious threat to the
free exercise of personal liberties and cannot be tolerated in a free
and civilized society. The Legislature by this chapter intends to
protect the right of privacy of the people of this state.
This would suggest that the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation is a concern for privacy.
add a comment |
To pick a two-party-consent jurisdiction at random, let us consider California, USA.
In 1967, the California Legislature enacted a broad, protective invasion-of-privacy statute in response to what it viewed as a serious and increasing threat to
the confidentiality of private communications resulting from then recent advances
in science and technology that had led to the development of new devices and
techniques for eavesdropping upon and recording such private communications.
This was done by means of Assembly Bill 860, which became Penal Code §§ 630-637.2. In a statement by Assemblyman Jesse Marvin "Big Daddy" Unruh, before the Senate Committee on Judiciary, the bill was so described:
The Legislature hereby declares that advances in science and
technology have led to the development of new devices and techniques
for the purpose of eavesdropping upon private communications and that
the invasion of privacy resulting from the continual and increasing
use of such devices and techniques has created a serious threat to the
free exercise of personal liberties and cannot be tolerated in a free
and civilized society. The Legislature by this chapter intends to
protect the right of privacy of the people of this state.
This would suggest that the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation is a concern for privacy.
To pick a two-party-consent jurisdiction at random, let us consider California, USA.
In 1967, the California Legislature enacted a broad, protective invasion-of-privacy statute in response to what it viewed as a serious and increasing threat to
the confidentiality of private communications resulting from then recent advances
in science and technology that had led to the development of new devices and
techniques for eavesdropping upon and recording such private communications.
This was done by means of Assembly Bill 860, which became Penal Code §§ 630-637.2. In a statement by Assemblyman Jesse Marvin "Big Daddy" Unruh, before the Senate Committee on Judiciary, the bill was so described:
The Legislature hereby declares that advances in science and
technology have led to the development of new devices and techniques
for the purpose of eavesdropping upon private communications and that
the invasion of privacy resulting from the continual and increasing
use of such devices and techniques has created a serious threat to the
free exercise of personal liberties and cannot be tolerated in a free
and civilized society. The Legislature by this chapter intends to
protect the right of privacy of the people of this state.
This would suggest that the motivation for a law requiring 2 parties to consent for recording a conversation is a concern for privacy.
answered 34 mins ago
RogerRoger
618111
618111
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thomas is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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I'm not sure what tag to add to this, I think only the law tag doesn't cover it but I'm not sure what other tags fit. If you want to add another tag, please feel free to add a comment.
– JJJ
2 hours ago
It's related to illegal eavesdropping or wiretapping. Can you elaborate on what the relevant wiki page doesn't cover well enough?
– Denis de Bernardy
2 hours ago
Stopping stuff from being taken out of context and/or proving it wasn't taken out of context is probably the entire point of the law, so your assumption about the recording being unambiguous is a hard one to make. "Why aren't guns allowed on planes? Let's assume they won't be used for hijacking it".
– Giter
53 mins ago